Driving your hybrid on sunshine - Solar Powered Hybrids

No Longer a pipe dream!
I wonder how many people have fantasised about driving their vehicle on nothing but solar energy. The Battery Clinic have come up with a solution that may start a revolution in realising this dream.

Up to now solar power have only been used to power the lights and air conditioning of a vehicle. In this configuration called Solar Assist, the sun's energy is directly contributing to the propulsion of the vehicle.

200 watts of solar panels are mounted on the roof of  a 2001 Estima hybrid, which could theoretically collect 2 Kilowatts of power on a good summer's day. In reality this would be not more than 1 Kilowatt on a good sunshine day and much less in winter.

Power gathered from the panels are stored in the 12 volt battery system unless the batteries are fully charged, in which case it will be shunted to the heat sinks. On first look it does not seem that such a small amount of power can make any impact on the fuel economy of the vehicle, but the reality is very different.

Solar Assist

With Solar Assist, solar energy directly powers the electric motors through the Power Jockeys. This extra power also helps to hold up the voltage of the 12 volt battery system maximising the electric drive mode of the hybrid vehicle.

In stop and start situations where the weight of the vehicle have to overcome inertia the fuel economising effect of solar assist is not apparent. Solar energy previously stored in the 12 volt batteries would have some contribution but this would not be much.

When the vehicle is in motion it takes less energy to keep the vehicle in motion and this is where Solar Assist comes into it's own. It was possible to keep the Estima Hybrid at 100 KPH running at 20 Kms/Litre fuel economy. On the slight downhill slope the economy was much better. As a result the first test with the vehicle on combined street and motorway driving was 15.2 Kms/Litre. This is much better than can be achieved by the vehicle without Solar Assist.

Potential and Implications
Free energy from the sun to drive our vehicles is certainly a seductive proposition. It does not seem possible that two hundred watts on a vehicle roof can make any difference to the fuel economy.

Fortunately the reality is that it made it possible to maintain driving speeds of 90 - 100 KPH at 20 Kms/Litre or better in the Estima Hybrid which weighs 1.7 tonnes. Although the fuel economy in city driving is not improved by much it can be made better with higher capacity HV batteries and possibly more Power Jockeys. We can also increase the wattage of solar panels.

I do not see electric vehicles taking over our motor vehicle industry any time soon. I do however believe that hybrids are the way of the future at least for now until we find a better alternative. Increasing the fuel economy of hybrids can make them competitive in fuel economy even against pure electrics. Changing the fuel source to ethanol and bio diesels will make these vehicles totally sustainable in terms of carbon emissions.

Hybrids are durable, economical and fun to drive. The future is with us now. We should embrace it.

Should you buy a full electric vehicle

Price and data listed here are average and used for comparative purposes only

Maker	Model	Price	Battery	Weight	Range	Economy
	Mitsubishi I-Miev	38,000 usd	16 kWh ($8000)	1080 kg	112 kms	30 kW-hrs /160 kms
	Nissan Leaf	40,000 usd	24 kWh ($12,000)	1521 kg	117 kms	34 kW-hrs /160 kms
	Ford Focus	40,000 usd	23 kWh ($12,000)	1674 kg	122 kms	32 kW-hrs /160 kms
	Chevrolet Volt	30,000 usd	16 kWh ($8000)	1715 kg	56 kms	36 kW-hrs /160 kms
	Tesla Roadster	140,000  usd	53 kWh ($28000)	1235 kg	400 kms	36 kW-hrs /160 kms

Purpose : We will assume that you purchase a vehicle to get you from A to B within your budget and circumstance. For a family saloon the choice would be the Nissan Leaf, Ford Focus and the Chevrolet Volt. The Mitsubishi I-MiEV would be for the short range city commuter while the Tesla will be for those with deep pockets.

Price : Full EV's are priced around US$40,000. This price is about twice the price of a standard vehicle. If you deduct the cost of the battery the price would be comparable to that of a standard vehicle.

Range : For the full EV range per charge is around 120 kms. This is a function of the battery size and weight of the vehicle. This makes the EV suitable only for the short commutes. The Chevy Volt also has a gasoline engine making it suitable for use as a standard family car. The Tesla has a range of 400 kms but the price makes it suitable for those who needs a vehicle as a personality statement.

Battery : This is the bane of all electric vehicle. The lithium ion battery is expected to last 7000 cycles and at 100 kms per cycle the standard EV should do 700,000 kms over it's useful life. I am very sceptical that this figure can be achieved. Even half the distance in my reckoning would be a stretch.

When the time comes for battery replacement the cost of replacement will most probably be more than the vehicle is worth. The argument that with economies of scale the cost of batteries will come down. This is a fallacy. Both Lithium and Yttrium the rare earth metal used in it's production are exotic metals.  If demand increases price will increase due to supply constraints. Economies of scale does not apply.

Putting a life span of 8 years or even 10 years for a vehicle is a turn off for vehicle owners. A typical vehicle goes through several class of owners. First are those who purchase the vehicle new and would use it foe 2 to 3 years selling it then for half it's value. Then comes those who would purchase a near new vehicle also keeping it for 3 to 5 years. Finally those who would purchase a cheap used vehicle expecting to spend a little more for maintenance and fuel economy.

The problem here is that with the cost of battery replacement the people in the second group ie those that would purchase a near new vehicle will find that their vehicle has no resale or even trade in value.

People in the third group will not have the money for a new battery. Those in the first and second group can afford a new battery but they would not settle for a 5 to 6 year old vehicle. It is for this reason that EV's will have great difficulty in finding a mass market.

Hybrids : Hybrid vehicles have taken off and will soon displace the standard petrol vehicles. For one the batteries used are Nimh to facilitate the fast charge and discharge and cost only around $2000 to replace. Many early hybrids (Prius NHW10) are still running 16 years later thanks to HV battery reconditioning technology coupled with HV battery augmentation with the Power Jockey allowing weaker HV batteries to work comfortably with the vehicle systems.

Already we see Renault and Mitsubishi giving up on EV's after spending more than $4 billion in development. Are electric cars dead? I believe not. We cannot keep burning fossil fuels as we are basically fowling our own nest.

"How many times must you be socked in the face before you admit that global warming is causing the wild fluctuations in our weather and 1 billion cars is the main cause ?" When we deem that the cost to us in infrastructure destruction and rebuild is too high we will place a premium on burning fossil fuels. It is when we decide to do this that I see a come back of the EV's with better battery technology and clean energy to drive it.

Car makers turn to petrol 
Electric cars will flop despite subsidies

Fuel octane rating and vehicle performance

About a couple of years ago I had an argument with a motor diagnostic specialist about the use of hi octane fuels. I have always used 91 octane in all our hybrids. His opinion was that we will get 5% improvement in fuel economy if we changed to 95 or 98. I have always resisted this change as the Prius is not a particularly high compression engine and therefore I see no added advantage. In any case the extra cost would cancel out any improve performance.

Chris Read has this to add which to me settles the matter.

Nearly all modern cars (certainly Japanese cars) learn various characteristics, a key one of which is octane rating, any car that has learnt a particular grade will probably react very badly when a fuel at the other end of the scale is used.

If I had a pound for every time somebody had told me they only buy a particular brand or grade of fuel 'because the car suddenly performs badly if another type of fuel is used' then I would be a rich man.  They have all been right in the short term and wrong in the long term.  Every scientific test I have ever seen (last one was performed by the Consumer Association in the UK for the Which? magazine, you can't get any more independent than that) concludes that standard unleaded (91 RON in the UK) gives the best value for money and there is no discernible difference between fuel brands (Shell, BP, etc.).

I choose a RON rating that is within the suitable range for the vehicle and stick to it, avoid premium or performance fuels as the extra costs in producing and marketing such fuel make it uneconomic to use (once the car has learnt to use 'basic' fuel).  If you want to change fuels then disconnect the 12v battery for a few minutes just before changing fuels to force the car to re-learn quickly, this will stop the warning lights.


(If you can, watch the long and short term fuel trim on a scanner (most will do OBD2 or E-OBD), for a few minutes after the 12v is re-connected and the car started.  The long and short fuel trims learn at the same pace for a while, then the long term gets heavily weighted by previous data and changes very very slowly.  It's this slow change that makes the car run so badly for a while after fuel is changed and sometimes puts an error light on.  Without a 12v disconnect, after a few days of learning the long term fuel trim adjusts enough to put the error light off and the cars running improves as it matches the fuelling better, happens much quicker with a 12v disconnect.)

Regards,

Chris.

Interesting Discussion on the Prius NHW10 battery

Hi George

I am a bit confused as what you say appears somewhat ambiguous to me.......

If they have not yet ordered them, presumably the batteries are still
located in Japan, so how can there be 300 new batteries already in NZ? Could
you clarify this please.

Also, do you have the actual full Toyota part number for this latest
replacement battery so that others can enquire at their local Toyota dealers
or HQs in other countries.

Didn't Toyota buy out Panasonic EV some years ago (who make the batteries).
Or did I dream that?

Despite what the TNZ guy is telling you George, I reckon that just maybe
they are going to fast track produce a new batch of NHW10 batteries, based
upon customer registrations/demand? I would not have thought they could hold
these units in stock generally due to self discharge issues etc. They need
to be freshly manufactured, then shipped really quickly to customers.
Imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to do charging maintenance and
checking on a 1000 batch of 'in stock' HV batteries.

I wonder how many NHW10s are still actually in service in Japan nowadays?
Hardly any would be my guess, but I would love to know. Years ago, we used
to have one or two very helpful Japanese members on this group, but sadly
they now seem to have gone away.

Regards

Peter

_______________________________


I spoke to Toyota head office, they say the are coming! I had to register
my  3 with them, they say anyone who registers will get one, but they have not
ordered yet. Apparently there were only 1000 made, and just over 300 are
here in NZ. Toyota did not realize how many there were, and have been
shocked at the response.

George Tyler

__________________________________


You may be right, maybe they going to make another batch. I think Toyota
should have done this from the beginning, it would hae helped sell the new
ones as there is a perception that with a hybrid there is a danger that it
may not be an economical proposition keep is after the pack has had it's
life.

George Tyler (24/8/2012)
______________________________________

No way. PanasonicEV made them originally. This was a partnership 
between Panasonic and Toyota. The problem is that both Toyota and 
Panasonic pulled out of the company and left it to flounder as 
PrimeEarth EV. They haven't made cells in this configuration since 
about 2003. Sanyo picked up the Honda business (which used these sticks 
until 2005) and then PrimeEarth got a contract to make cells for the 
2006+ Hondas. These are NOT the same cells, or the same configuration. 
Panasonic bought Sanyo a few years ago and sold off the entire NiMH line.

Recently, Honda got two new suppliers of sticks: One is refurbished 
packs (you don't want them). The other is another company whose cells 
are different enough to require a software update for the car.

This unnamed source is probably where Toyota will get them.

Ron Hansen (25/8/2012)

________________________________________________

Up until a couple of years ago the were advertised on Panasonic's web site,
they still have other sizes but not this one. For a while they had them
there still but marked as obsolete. In 2007 the sales engineer from
Panasonic batteries visited us, and they were still available then, but they
would not supply me as I told them I wanted them for a Prius and Toyota
blocked it.

George Tyler (28/5/2012)

______________________________________________

My guess is that they are confuse between NHW10 and NHW11

They think they are supplying NHW11 for the NHW10 vehicles.

Seems more reasonable at the price $3500 probably cost.

If they have to supply NHW10 batteries they will be losing on each battery

that is if they can get them.

Patrick Phan (25/8/2012)

______________________________________________

They do seem to understand the difference, they say they offering it "for

the same price as the NHW11 for a limited period". The last I heard was that
they have not ordered them yet, we will see what happens when they order
them. 

George Tyler (25/8/2012)

________________________________________________________

Ok, well there's a NHW10 on eBay in Sydney up for grabs
Car is still complete at the moment according to seller.
Aparrently he pulled the battery out to show it.
I had a quick chat with him, and he may sell the woke car as one.
Worth a look, but how good the battery will be is anyone's guess.
I was going to swing by, and run my S2000 scanner on it if it was all in one piece.
Am looking for a MFD screen myself, just seems a shame to pull it apart for this alone.
I have found a supplier of the sticks, and he says he bought the old machinery that used to make them from Panasonic. Am going to give them a work-out when I get them, seeing is believing I guess, but we will see how they perform.
Am still negotiating a decent price for them at the moment, or at least for the samples anyway, but will keep this forum posted as it happens.
I have to agree, the S2000 will balance charge the HV battery, and you can adjust the parameters the system uses to figure out when to throw an alarm up. 
Experimenting is still continuing in the household on this too.
The wife swears no issues with the car now.
There is a guy who goes by "Mik" on here who is pretty savvy on the battery packs, and he may be able input a bit more info.
Richie. (8/9/2012)

___________________________________________

That would be quite a feat considering that PrimeEarth EV still owns all that equipment and Panasonic never did (Panasonic EV was the former name of PrimeEarth EV, back when it was a partnership between Panasonic and Toyota).

If you would like to send me one cell, I can test it for you.

Ron Hansen(8/9/2012)

_____________________________________________

Local Toyota agent phoned, my new battery is here! NZ$3500, including tax
and fitting. 6year/160,000km guarantee! This changes everything, suddenly
these cars are a bargain. I took a new Prius "C" for a drive, but prefer my
NHW10's. I think the prius C is the way they need to go, but it's not up to
the build quality and refinement of the NHW10. George, have you got your
battery yet?

George Tyler (18/10/2012)

_____________________________________________

I saw my battery at the Toyota dealership today! I had the money in my hot
little hands, the battery on the floor, but that was as close as it got.
there is an issue, they will only do it on exchange. I was told originally
that it would be just the 2 half packs, but it is actually the whole battery
pack sealed up with everything inside, so I suppose this is reasonable. Does
make some problems for me though.

George Tyler (18/10/2012)

___________________________________________________

Ok.. I have just driven home with a NEW Toyota NHW10 Battery! $3450
including fitting and gst. I tryid to get them to give me the old strings so
I could put the best ones into my other car that is sitting with no battery,
but they would not do that, I gave them 2 empty battery packs but they
returned them instead of the full ones like I asked. Still, it's great to
have a new battery and no worries for the next 8 years.
Patrick, you have done a great thing, thankyou! You have single
handedly turned the whole of Toyota around!

George Tyler (29/10/2012)

___________________________________________________

That's. Great news George.

I am sure we are all itching to know what cell types they have used inside but I suppose you won't be allowed to ever open it up to see. 

Regards

Peter (29/10/2012)

______________________________________________________

Hi George,                

Can you tell us if the battery supplied by Toyota is NEW?I have a customer who tells me that he is only getting 2 year warranty.Is this true? They promised a new battery and by right an 8 year warranty should follow.               

If they are not holding to their bargain then a complaint to the commerce commission is called for.
Thanks

Patrick (23/11/2012)

___________________________________________

Hi Patrick,

I will be very upset if they only give me 2 year warrantee!
Toyota NZ told me 8 year/160,000 km. they also told me it's new cells in
there, if anything is not as they say I will want a refund. I have not done
the other battery I spoke to you about yet, it belongs to Saju Abraham, he
bought the car from you. ECM38. The strange thing is, they said all hybrid
batteries have this 8 year guarantee, and I know some people have bought
NHW11 batteries with a 2 year warrantee. Maybe to local dealers give a 2
year then claim a new one for nothing from Toyota, then pocket the money!?
But we will see next week, I will phone them. 

Regards,

George (23/11/2012)

_______________________________________________

Think I;m jumping the gun morethan a bit, I have no reason to suspect that
there is not the 8 year they promised, Sorry Toyota!

George (23/11/2012)

_______________________________________________

How do you tell if cells are new or not?
Perhaps you can enlighten us here Chris.

Patrick (24/11/2012)

_________________________________________________

I took the easy way, I just asked them, I also asked them to confirm that
the Battery came from Toyota Japan, which they did. So far all good, no
turtles, etc. I seems to get slightly better consumption, maybe 2 km/L more.
Otherwise the same as before. Big thing that makes it worth while is the 8
year/160,000km guarantee, I will phone them tomorrow and ask them to send me
that in writing.

George (26/11/2012)

HSBC makes almost £100million from ‘bankrolling’ rainforest destruction

Global banking giant HSBC has raked in nearly £100m by bankrolling Malaysian logging companies who cause widespread rainforest destruction and abuse human rights....... ( Read More )

And - American authorities on Tuesday cited “astonishing” dysfunctional the British bank HSBC and said that it had helped Mexican drug traffickers, Iran, Libya and others under U.S. suspicion or sanction to move money around the world. 
HSBC agreed to pay $1.9 billion, the largest penalty ever imposed on a bank (Read More). 

Should we take issues with banks making loans to companies and individuals for projects we don't agree with? If legality is not the question then how they choose to risk their money should not be our concern. The problem here is that we have to ask if banks and companies is general should consider corporate responsibility when making policies? Walmart chooses to dictate to their suppliers "green credentials". Google chooses to mitigate Co2 emissions of their servers.

Hurricane Sandy just left a trail of destruction and death across the Carribean and the United States. We are being hit with one in a 100 year storms and weather with increasing regularity. As Michael Moore says "this is the new normal. How many times must we be socked in the head before we come to the realisation that maybe we may have something to do with this situation?".



Prior to the industrial age co2 level was 275 ppm it is now approaching 400 ppm. Should we be worried? Should we care? Co2 level is estimated to be 1800 ppm in the Jurassic period. We have condensed this time frame from millions of years to just a few hundred or even less. 

Yes we should take corporations to task for their policies. Our future is at stake.

What to do when Fair Go comes calling

We all enjoy the entertainment value when we see an unscrupulous trader or tradesman  or supplier of goods squirm under the glare of a programme like Fair Go.

"Hell he deserves it."  "Good on Fair Go for letting us know."

But what if Fair Go actually makes a mistake? What if the person accused made a mistake or an error in judgement?

What to do

• Request a copy of the questions that you will be asked
• Meet them on their turf. Don't invite them to your premises
• Asked that you be allowed to provide a written statement

As it stands the accused has no avenue to put up their side of the defence. Fair Go hides behind their perceived image of fair just and balance reporting. What actually happens is anything but. Once a programme like Fair Go has committed to a story, they hardly ever admit to a mistake unless forced to do so.

The standard excuses are:

• We just reported the story. We do not take sides
• Not our statements but that of the complainants
• It is the opinion of our experts
• The catch all is of course "we do not agree"

For those that cannot fight back there is no recourse. Sure there is the complaints process but they know their way around these. Legal action is only for those with deep pockets. For the rest of us we will just have to " bite our tongue and suck it." But do we?

The Battery Clinic's fight with Fair Go is an example of what you can do to protect yourself. The key is that media odds in the age of YOUTUBE have shifted slightly. This is the age of the democratisation of the media. http://thebatteryclinic.co.nz/tvnz-fair-go-2/

Toyota Nimh Battery offer and Patent Issues

Recently Toyota NZ announced that they will supply new NIMH battery pack for the Prius Generation One for $3500 installed. While The Battery Clinic applaud this move we do have our reservation as to how this can be achieved. Toyota have not used this type of batteries in their vehicles since 2000 but we will afford them the benefit of the doubt and really hope that they come through with their offer as this is the only way to keep the iconic vehicles running.

Another issue is that of the patent for the Nimh battery technology below an extract from Wikipedia

"Patent dispute with Panasonic EV Energy

Panasonic EV Energy (PEVE), a joint venture between Matsushita and Toyota begun in 1996, pioneered several advances in large-format NiMH batteries suitable for electric vehicles.

PEVE supplied higher capacity (28Ah-95Ah) NiMH batteries for use in Toyota, Honda, and Ford battery electric vehicles (BEVs) that began production in 1997.^[32] PEVE's lower capacity batteries powered the hybrid electric vehicle (HEV) Toyota Prius, which was introduced in Japan in 1997, and sold 18,000 units in its first year of production,^[33] as well as the first Honda Insight and, with Sanyo Electric Co, first generation Civic hybrid models. BEV production by major automakers ceased in the early 2000s, with most leased BEV vehicles crushed by their manufacturers, and replacement batteries unavailable for remaining vehicles.

A 2001 patent infringement lawsuit brought by ECD Ovonics and Ovonic Battery Company, Inc. against Matsushita, Toyota, and PEVE was settled in July 2004. Settlement terms called for cross-licensing between parties of current and future NiMH-related patents filed through December 31, 2014. The terms prevented Matushita, Toyota, and PEVE from selling certain NiMH batteries for transportation applications in North America until the second half of 2007, and commercial quantities of certain NiMH batteries in North America until the second half of 2010. Additionally, Ovonic Battery Co. and ECD Ovonics received a $10 million patent license fee, Cobasys received a $20 million patent license fee, $16 million of which was earmarked to reimburse legal expenses, and Cobasys would receive royalties on certain batteries sold by Matushita/PEVE in North America.^[34]

Licensing terms were expanded in 2005, with PEVE granted further license to sell NiMH batteries for certain transportation applications in North America, in exchange for royalties paid to Cobasys through 2014.^[35]

[edit]

Can the Saudis be a net oil importer by 2030? Yes!

Saudis 'may run out of oil to export by 2030’

A report by Citigroup has warned that Saudi Arabia could run out of oil to export by 2030, raising fears that oil prices may rise significantly in coming years.

By Emily Gosden

Saudi Arabia consumes 25pc of its oil output and oil accounts for about 50pc of its electricity production. With peak power demand rising by about 8pc per year, the nation is aiming to more than double its power capacity by 2032 through new nuclear and solar instalations.

If power demand were to grow as predicted and there were no change to the electricity fuel supply mix, “we estimate Saudi Arabia would be a net importer of oil by 2030,”.

_________________________________________________________

This scenario is very plausible. Much of the oil used by the Saudis locally is used in air conditioning. As the population increases and gets increasingly urban, more power will be used for this purpose. To assume that we can get continuing access to cheap oil is irresponsible. We have to take every step to change our oil based economy to a sustainable energy economy.

As a start we will have to reduce our dependency on oil and reduction in the use of oil is a major step. As 60% of the oil we used is in the transportation sector this is where most gains can be made. A move to hybrid vehicle technology fully implemented will reduce oil used by half. This is a proven technology and it works. There should be no reason why it can't be implemented.

China Increases Rare Earth Quota

This article from AP announcing China's relenting to pressure to increase rare earth exports. We have to question why other countries are not willing to put in or increase their own production. Is environmental degradation acceptable in some countries but not others? While we are debating this question we should ensure that every step to reduce the consumption of rare earth metals have to be explored and adopted.
This brings me to the Power Jockey and battery reconditioning. We have proven that we can double the service life of HV batteries with these methods pioneered by the Battery Clinic. Hybrid and electric cars are set to replace gas guzzling petrol versions as fuel prices escalates. This will increase demand for high capacity batteries and rare earth metal use. This technology developed by the Battery Clinic will stretch out our rare and limited resource a little further.

August 23/08/2012

BEIJING (AP) - China on Wednesday slightly increased this year's quota for rare earths exports under controversial controls on the exotic minerals needed by manufacturers of mobile phones and other high-tech products.

The Commerce Ministry announced an export quota of 9,770 tons for the second half of the year. Added to the quota for the first six months of the year, that brings the 2012 total to 30,996 tons - an increase of about 3 per cent over 2011.

China has about 30 per cent of the world's rare earths deposits but accounts for more than 90 per cent of production. It alarmed global manufacturers by imposing export curbs in 2009 while it tries to build up a domestic processing industry to capture more of the profits that go to US, Japanese and European companies that transform rare earths into mobile phone batteries, camera lenses and other products..........

Comments about NHW10 the Generation One Prius

This comment is a reprint from the MK1 Prius Forum. It highlights the problems with purchasing a NHW10 Generation 1 Prius hybrid. 

It seems that there are a few people out there, who cannot get a clear vision of the Early Prius.

Well, I bought Prius #1 4 weeks ago, and it was bought as not working etc, etc, with battery doubts etc.

The car looked neglected by under-educated garages over time when we got it, but I figured with my background, it would at least be worth the price in parts if it failed, and could not be ressurected.

We drove it home, and drove as advised by the vendor. Well, it was flawless right from the start.

It was an excellent buy, we cannot be happier.

Since then, it has done the daily work run for the wife, some 57Km's daily, and four runs across the city, and free-way driving. It spluttered for the first 2 Km's on the first Free-way run, and was obviously over fuelling, or not running hot enough by the "Rotten egg" odour from the rear. it seemed to clear itself out, and never missed a beat. Some 4 weeks plus, it has covered all types of driving, including the last 24hrs, some 758Km's, and amazingly, the fuel tank does not need a top-up. INCREDIBLE!

I have to admit I was a little weary of buying one, but now two of them, but figured the parts alone were worth more than we paid for each one, so what the hell we said. We had always been curious, but the price tag of the recent ones was high, especially if we were left with a "Lemon"

My recommendation... Buy a cheap one, and try it first. If you like the economy and quality, then trade the one in, and go for the newer item.

The wife is not letting go of hers, no matter what, she is seriously in love with it for all reasons.

Recommend not going to the average garage to get it serviced, or it may finish up like Prius #2.

#2 is now at home, running, and gently charging its battery pack. Have to admit, it can be worrying when they don't function normally, but given the 1998 Prius's shining example, I have faith I can resurrect it over time...

Rule #1... a REAL garage who knows what battery and spark plugs to use, and can, in fact change the air filter, rather than say they have.

Not the car, its the people who service them.

My conclusion after first month... I AM going to trade one in for a recent model for certain, the 1998... well, I have to get the key from the wifes hand before I even dare.... after all, after 2000Km's in four weeks, What a car, no way gonna buy a "Normal" gas guzzler after I have tasted such luxury and technology from last century.