I am thinking of buying a Toyota Prius but I have been told that the batteries don't last forever and cost about $10,000 to replace.
Quoted prices for battery replacements :
Series 1 Prius (1997 - 2000 ) $12000
Series 2 Prius (2000 - 2003 ) $5000
Series 3 Prius ( 2003 - 2007 ) $ 3500
The Battery Clinic offer a recondition option for $1500. This comes with a 12 months warranty and continuing after warranty support of $500 to repair. This will ensure that we keep these vehicles running for as long as the it can pass a WOF.
How long do the batteries last?
The main HEV battery are like tyres and brake pads. They are consumables and wear out over time.
I have heard of taxis (Series 1) that have done over 500,000 Km on the same engine and battery.
If proper maintenance was carried out the battery will last much longer. Problem is that most garages and even Toyota dealers do not know how to maintain these vehicles correctly. Proper maintenance should include cleaning the air flow meter, the spark plug coils, spark plugs, coolants, 12 volt battery and HEV battery cell equalisation. It is important to realise that if the ICE engine is not performing at peak it will affect the battery and therefore electric engine.
The Toyota showroom in the town where I live is offering a new Prius at a reduced price does it mean that this model has been superceded by one with more advanced technology?
Manufacturers of vehicles always update their models. The real question here is if the older model last as long as standard vehicles given that their HEV battery pack has an expected life of 8 - 10 years. The short answer is that hybrid vehicles will outlast standard vehicles especially now when the battery clinic can recondition the battery pack and support it well into the future.
This vehicle has very low maintenance which means less parts that can fail. In addition depreciating parts such as brake pads, spark plugs and the internal combustion engine will last many times more than their counterparts in a standard vehicles.
We just removed the spark plugs from a vehicle that has done 170,000 kms. It is still on it's original set of spark plugs !! The gap has increased to about 3 times it's original but there is very little soot and oil deposited on the plugs.
Many of the problems seen with these vehicles are the result of poor maintenance mostly because it runs so well even without the maintenance and the standard garages including Toyota do not know what to do to maintain these vehicles properly.
At a guess with proper maintenance the expected life of the battery can be extended by as much as 5 years before it need reconditioning. Most of the damage done to the battery is a result of lost in power in the ICE from poor maintenance.
The engine has a 1500cc rating. Is this suitable for long distance travel?
There are 2 engines in this vehicle. It is equivalent to a 2500CC standard vehicle but cost less than half to run. Long distance travel is actually very comfortable because the vehicle is so quiet and vibration free.
Make sure you give the Prius a good long test drive before you make your final decision. If in doubt bring it to an expert such as people at the battery clinic for their opinion. They will often give it for free
Thursday, February 11, 2010
Sunday, February 7, 2010
How Good Is The Prius Series 1
Many Prius Series 1 owners have given up on their vehicle after bad experiences with their car HEV battery. This is not surprising as there has been very little help or information available to them to allay their fears and frustrations.
They are told that it costs $12,000 for a replacement battery by none other than Toyota themselves! This is as good as saying "Your car is scrap metal" It may be that this model was never meant for the international market and only exported out of Japan as used vehicles. However it does not help the image of hybrid cars to early adopters of this technology.
The Prius Series 1 Hybrid is A VERY GOOD CAR. This is our unreserved opinion after reconditioning the Series 1 battery pack since 2007. Our breakthrough came when we were able to clear the fault code in the battery computer. This made it possible to correctly diagnose the real problem with the vehicle which contributed to the HEV battery failure in the first place. What we have discovered is that any inefficiency in the internal combustion engine (ICE), affects the HEV battery.
The most important thing to do when owning a hybrid vehicle is to keep the ICE operating at peak efficiency. Ironically because the vehicle seems to runs so well even when the ICE is not 100% - maintenance is neglected.
We have seen vehicles run without coolants ! Spark plugs which are normal standard plugs not changed for 150,000 Kms, Most important the air flow meter is not operating at 100%. It should be cleaned on regular basis and if not performing correctly, it should be replaced.
We would be the only people who will recondition the Prius Series 1 HEV battery for $1500. The battery is not new but even so, if the ICE is operating faultlessly this car will perform as expected. We will be able to keep the HEV battery operating for as long as the car continues to get a warrant.
They are told that it costs $12,000 for a replacement battery by none other than Toyota themselves! This is as good as saying "Your car is scrap metal" It may be that this model was never meant for the international market and only exported out of Japan as used vehicles. However it does not help the image of hybrid cars to early adopters of this technology.
The Prius Series 1 Hybrid is A VERY GOOD CAR. This is our unreserved opinion after reconditioning the Series 1 battery pack since 2007. Our breakthrough came when we were able to clear the fault code in the battery computer. This made it possible to correctly diagnose the real problem with the vehicle which contributed to the HEV battery failure in the first place. What we have discovered is that any inefficiency in the internal combustion engine (ICE), affects the HEV battery.
The most important thing to do when owning a hybrid vehicle is to keep the ICE operating at peak efficiency. Ironically because the vehicle seems to runs so well even when the ICE is not 100% - maintenance is neglected.
We have seen vehicles run without coolants ! Spark plugs which are normal standard plugs not changed for 150,000 Kms, Most important the air flow meter is not operating at 100%. It should be cleaned on regular basis and if not performing correctly, it should be replaced.
We would be the only people who will recondition the Prius Series 1 HEV battery for $1500. The battery is not new but even so, if the ICE is operating faultlessly this car will perform as expected. We will be able to keep the HEV battery operating for as long as the car continues to get a warrant.
Wednesday, February 3, 2010
More on the S2000 from Kevin
For the Generation 1 Prius NHW10 ( 1997 - 2000) the only scanner that works is the Factory issued S2000. Make sure that you get a serviceman with the correct scanner to diagnose your vehicle.
Kevin is the real expert in the area of the Prius Hybrid. In his latest post to the forum replicated here he explains how the battery management systems works.
Hi all on the forum,
It has been called into question "what is the S2000", what necessity is it to us, how can it be useful to us with regards an equalization charge.
The TECNO S2000 hand held scan tool is the Toyota main dealer diagnostic scan tool of Japan, during the 1990's(where and when the NHW10 was released), being different from that of the western world which was a Mastertech main dealer scan tool.
JPG photos of aspects of the S2000 can be seen in the file section under "TecnoS2000" .
When working with a Prius NHW10, the S2000 scan tool required an extra " prius special" S2000 flash card ( photoDSC00404. JPG) to access the Hybrid extra features of this car. Also if you look at the last photo DS00412.JPG in this file you will see the menu page that deals with equalization charging using this scan tool.
In the file section also, under "NHW10 scanner fault codes" you will find the Toyota technicians Hybrid system fault code sheets for this cars hybrid system, including the "code 2579.pdf" file on how to deal with the C2579 (red triangle of death) using the S2000 scan tool with the S2000 Prius flash card fitted.
In short, this was a quick fix solution to the long-term problem of the traction batteries gradual demise. Once there is a difference of over 1 Volt between the battery modules that the battery ECU fails to balance out, then the code C2579 is invoked and a fail-safe program is switched on to protect the battery (you may notice that less turtles appear after this happening) when the triangle comes on. The garage technician would then fit the S2000 scan tool, access the menu ( DS00412.JPG) and carry out an equalization charge. This is a quick boost charge to 100% capacity using the on board ICE and MG2, IRRESPECTIVE of how much heat it generates (see code2579.pdf file instructions) . During which the fail-safe program is also automatically switched back off. After which the technician would then carry out an adjustment to the SOC settings, also see photo DSC00412.JPG) to prevent any more likely hood of any over heating or imbalance until the next time. I suspect that if this "quick fix" did not work then, Yes, the battery would have been removed, and send back to Panasonic for rejuvenation. If you look at the "battery scan.doc" file you can see settings for "off board charging", and equalization of channel 1&2 charging that don't appear on the S2000 scan tool menu's.
So NO, I do not think that doing an S2000 equalization charge is better than a full strip down and rejuvenation, but it is a dam site quicker and safer to the technician. Plus it switches off the fail-safe protection programming that is part and parcel of the red triangle scenario, which may be affecting your economy if its on.
The trouble with doing rejuvenation to a battery pack on its own, is that you are stuck with the set adjusted SOC settings as is already set up in the ECU by the last Japanese technician whom accessed it, also if the Red triangle is still lit, then the protection program is still active. So you will not reap the full benefit of the rejuvenation. This is OK if your SOC setting is set high, but not if it is set at a low %setting.
In short, this is a highly software driven car, and whether you use the S2000 scan tool to do an equalization charge, or if you have the courage to do a full and more dangerous strip down and rejuvenation yourself, then there is still benefits to switching off the red triangle and adjusting the SOC readings if you can access an original S2000 scan tool with flash card, to do this. At the end of the day though, we should all do what ever it is that we can do, to keep these " what I think" are wonderful cars,
Going for as long as we can. By hook or by crook is nessessary, But please be safe.
kevin
Kevin is the real expert in the area of the Prius Hybrid. In his latest post to the forum replicated here he explains how the battery management systems works.
Hi all on the forum,
It has been called into question "what is the S2000", what necessity is it to us, how can it be useful to us with regards an equalization charge.
The TECNO S2000 hand held scan tool is the Toyota main dealer diagnostic scan tool of Japan, during the 1990's(where and when the NHW10 was released), being different from that of the western world which was a Mastertech main dealer scan tool.
JPG photos of aspects of the S2000 can be seen in the file section under "TecnoS2000" .
When working with a Prius NHW10, the S2000 scan tool required an extra " prius special" S2000 flash card ( photoDSC00404. JPG) to access the Hybrid extra features of this car. Also if you look at the last photo DS00412.JPG in this file you will see the menu page that deals with equalization charging using this scan tool.
In the file section also, under "NHW10 scanner fault codes" you will find the Toyota technicians Hybrid system fault code sheets for this cars hybrid system, including the "code 2579.pdf" file on how to deal with the C2579 (red triangle of death) using the S2000 scan tool with the S2000 Prius flash card fitted.
In short, this was a quick fix solution to the long-term problem of the traction batteries gradual demise. Once there is a difference of over 1 Volt between the battery modules that the battery ECU fails to balance out, then the code C2579 is invoked and a fail-safe program is switched on to protect the battery (you may notice that less turtles appear after this happening) when the triangle comes on. The garage technician would then fit the S2000 scan tool, access the menu ( DS00412.JPG) and carry out an equalization charge. This is a quick boost charge to 100% capacity using the on board ICE and MG2, IRRESPECTIVE of how much heat it generates (see code2579.pdf file instructions) . During which the fail-safe program is also automatically switched back off. After which the technician would then carry out an adjustment to the SOC settings, also see photo DSC00412.JPG) to prevent any more likely hood of any over heating or imbalance until the next time. I suspect that if this "quick fix" did not work then, Yes, the battery would have been removed, and send back to Panasonic for rejuvenation. If you look at the "battery scan.doc" file you can see settings for "off board charging", and equalization of channel 1&2 charging that don't appear on the S2000 scan tool menu's.
So NO, I do not think that doing an S2000 equalization charge is better than a full strip down and rejuvenation, but it is a dam site quicker and safer to the technician. Plus it switches off the fail-safe protection programming that is part and parcel of the red triangle scenario, which may be affecting your economy if its on.
The trouble with doing rejuvenation to a battery pack on its own, is that you are stuck with the set adjusted SOC settings as is already set up in the ECU by the last Japanese technician whom accessed it, also if the Red triangle is still lit, then the protection program is still active. So you will not reap the full benefit of the rejuvenation. This is OK if your SOC setting is set high, but not if it is set at a low %setting.
In short, this is a highly software driven car, and whether you use the S2000 scan tool to do an equalization charge, or if you have the courage to do a full and more dangerous strip down and rejuvenation yourself, then there is still benefits to switching off the red triangle and adjusting the SOC readings if you can access an original S2000 scan tool with flash card, to do this. At the end of the day though, we should all do what ever it is that we can do, to keep these " what I think" are wonderful cars,
Going for as long as we can. By hook or by crook is nessessary, But please be safe.
kevin
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)