Saturday, November 24, 2012

Interesting Discussion on the Prius NHW10 battery

Hi George

I am a bit confused as what you say appears somewhat ambiguous to me.......

If they have not yet ordered them, presumably the batteries are still
located in Japan, so how can there be 300 new batteries already in NZ? Could
you clarify this please.

Also, do you have the actual full Toyota part number for this latest
replacement battery so that others can enquire at their local Toyota dealers
or HQs in other countries.

Didn't Toyota buy out Panasonic EV some years ago (who make the batteries).
Or did I dream that?

Despite what the TNZ guy is telling you George, I reckon that just maybe
they are going to fast track produce a new batch of NHW10 batteries, based
upon customer registrations/demand? I would not have thought they could hold
these units in stock generally due to self discharge issues etc. They need
to be freshly manufactured, then shipped really quickly to customers.
Imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to do charging maintenance and
checking on a 1000 batch of 'in stock' HV batteries.

I wonder how many NHW10s are still actually in service in Japan nowadays?
Hardly any would be my guess, but I would love to know. Years ago, we used
to have one or two very helpful Japanese members on this group, but sadly
they now seem to have gone away.




I spoke to Toyota head office, they say the are coming! I had to register
my  3 with them, they say anyone who registers will get one, but they have not
ordered yet. Apparently there were only 1000 made, and just over 300 are
here in NZ. Toyota did not realize how many there were, and have been
shocked at the response.

George Tyler


You may be right, maybe they going to make another batch. I think Toyota
should have done this from the beginning, it would hae helped sell the new
ones as there is a perception that with a hybrid there is a danger that it
may not be an economical proposition keep is after the pack has had it's

George Tyler (24/8/2012)

No way. PanasonicEV made them originally. This was a partnership 
between Panasonic and Toyota. The problem is that both Toyota and 
Panasonic pulled out of the company and left it to flounder as 
PrimeEarth EV. They haven't made cells in this configuration since 
about 2003. Sanyo picked up the Honda business (which used these sticks 
until 2005) and then PrimeEarth got a contract to make cells for the 
2006+ Hondas. These are NOT the same cells, or the same configuration. 
Panasonic bought Sanyo a few years ago and sold off the entire NiMH line.

Recently, Honda got two new suppliers of sticks: One is refurbished 
packs (you don't want them). The other is another company whose cells 
are different enough to require a software update for the car.

This unnamed source is probably where Toyota will get them.

Ron Hansen (25/8/2012)


Up until a couple of years ago the were advertised on Panasonic's web site,
they still have other sizes but not this one. For a while they had them
there still but marked as obsolete. In 2007 the sales engineer from
Panasonic batteries visited us, and they were still available then, but they
would not supply me as I told them I wanted them for a Prius and Toyota
blocked it.

George Tyler (28/5/2012)


My guess is that they are confuse between NHW10 and NHW11
They think they are supplying NHW11 for the NHW10 vehicles.
Seems more reasonable at the price $3500 probably cost.

If they have to supply NHW10 batteries they will be losing on each battery
that is if they can get them.

Patrick Phan (25/8/2012)


They do seem to understand the difference, they say they offering it "for
the same price as the NHW11 for a limited period". The last I heard was that
they have not ordered them yet, we will see what happens when they order

George Tyler (25/8/2012)


Ok, well there's a NHW10 on eBay in Sydney up for grabs
Car is still complete at the moment according to seller.
Aparrently he pulled the battery out to show it.
I had a quick chat with him, and he may sell the woke car as one.
Worth a look, but how good the battery will be is anyone's guess.
I was going to swing by, and run my S2000 scanner on it if it was all in one piece.
Am looking for a MFD screen myself, just seems a shame to pull it apart for this alone.
I have found a supplier of the sticks, and he says he bought the old machinery that used to make them from Panasonic. Am going to give them a work-out when I get them, seeing is believing I guess, but we will see how they perform.
Am still negotiating a decent price for them at the moment, or at least for the samples anyway, but will keep this forum posted as it happens.
I have to agree, the S2000 will balance charge the HV battery, and you can adjust the parameters the system uses to figure out when to throw an alarm up. 
Experimenting is still continuing in the household on this too.
The wife swears no issues with the car now.
There is a guy who goes by "Mik" on here who is pretty savvy on the battery packs, and he may be able input a bit more info.
Richie. (8/9/2012)


That would be quite a feat considering that PrimeEarth EV still owns all that equipment and Panasonic never did (Panasonic EV was the former name of PrimeEarth EV, back when it was a partnership between Panasonic and Toyota).

If you would like to send me one cell, I can test it for you.

Ron Hansen(8/9/2012)


Local Toyota agent phoned, my new battery is here! NZ$3500, including tax
and fitting. 6year/160,000km guarantee! This changes everything, suddenly
these cars are a bargain. I took a new Prius "C" for a drive, but prefer my
NHW10's. I think the prius C is the way they need to go, but it's not up to
the build quality and refinement of the NHW10. George, have you got your
battery yet?

George Tyler (18/10/2012)


I saw my battery at the Toyota dealership today! I had the money in my hot
little hands, the battery on the floor, but that was as close as it got.
there is an issue, they will only do it on exchange. I was told originally
that it would be just the 2 half packs, but it is actually the whole battery
pack sealed up with everything inside, so I suppose this is reasonable. Does
make some problems for me though.

George Tyler (18/10/2012)


Ok.. I have just driven home with a NEW Toyota NHW10 Battery! $3450
including fitting and gst. I tryid to get them to give me the old strings so
I could put the best ones into my other car that is sitting with no battery,
but they would not do that, I gave them 2 empty battery packs but they
returned them instead of the full ones like I asked. Still, it's great to
have a new battery and no worries for the next 8 years.
Patrick, you have done a great thing, thankyou! You have single
handedly turned the whole of Toyota around!

George Tyler (29/10/2012)


That's. Great news George.

I am sure we are all itching to know what cell types they have used inside but I suppose you won't be allowed to ever open it up to see. 


Peter (29/10/2012)


Hi George,                
Can you tell us if the battery supplied by Toyota is NEW?I have a customer who tells me that he is only getting 2 year warranty.Is this true? They promised a new battery and by right an 8 year warranty should follow.               
If they are not holding to their bargain then a complaint to the commerce commission is called for.

Patrick (23/11/2012)


Hi Patrick,

I will be very upset if they only give me 2 year warrantee!
Toyota NZ told me 8 year/160,000 km. they also told me it's new cells in
there, if anything is not as they say I will want a refund. I have not done
the other battery I spoke to you about yet, it belongs to Saju Abraham, he
bought the car from you. ECM38. The strange thing is, they said all hybrid
batteries have this 8 year guarantee, and I know some people have bought
NHW11 batteries with a 2 year warrantee. Maybe to local dealers give a 2
year then claim a new one for nothing from Toyota, then pocket the money!?
But we will see next week, I will phone them. 


George (23/11/2012)


Think I;m jumping the gun morethan a bit, I have no reason to suspect that
there is not the 8 year they promised, Sorry Toyota!

George (23/11/2012)


How do you tell if cells are new or not?
Perhaps you can enlighten us here Chris.

Patrick (24/11/2012)


I took the easy way, I just asked them, I also asked them to confirm that
the Battery came from Toyota Japan, which they did. So far all good, no
turtles, etc. I seems to get slightly better consumption, maybe 2 km/L more.
Otherwise the same as before. Big thing that makes it worth while is the 8
year/160,000km guarantee, I will phone them tomorrow and ask them to send me
that in writing.

George (26/11/2012)

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